Rejoinder to Bristows Reply, Part 1 · Chapter 9 · Section 6 – Section 8
Whether Purgatory be only for veniall sinnes.Bristow….
Standing vponupon Augustines iudgement Enchirid. Cap Fulke.69. and other places, I maintained, that Purgatory could not be by his iudgment, for greate offences which by penance are made small. Against which Allen cited Augustine De vera & falsa poenitentia: that some sinnes are mort…l, which by repentance are made venial, &c. which if they be not purged in this life, require punishment a… ter this life, &c. And Bristow noteth thē more at large, as though I had not vnderstood them, or not read ye booke. The truth is, I made none account of ye counter…et book, but noted the impudencie of Allen, that would cite it against the certaine and knowen iudgement of Augustine. Wheras this counterfeit booke, if nothing else did bewray it, in the 17. Chapiter rehearseth the opinion of Augustine by name, and doth confute it.
But Bristowe passeth impudence it selfe, while he alledgeth for the same with Allen Enchir. Ad laurent. Cap. 71. Where Augustine saith of the Lordes praier in them that are regenerate. Delet omnino, &c. That praier altogether putteth away those small and daily sinnes. Also it putteth away euen those sinnes, from which the life of the faithfull that hath bene wickedly ledde, but by …epenting beeing chaunged into better, departeth. Here he saith expresly, that by repentaunce and praier, great offences are cleane wiped away, euen as small. But how doth Bristowe proue hereof, that mortall sinnes are become venial…? Which also in the next worlde hee admitteth. Cap. 6…. (saith Bristowe). But what doth he admitte? that small sinnes may be purged peraduenture in the next life. What, B…istowe? hauehave you forgotten what you helde euen in this Chapter, vnderunder the title (whether Saint Augustine doubted of Purgatorie Fol. 250.) that he speaketh not of purging sinnes, but of purging worldly lawfull affections, wi…h greefe of minde, &c.? But admitte he speaketh of purging small sinnes in that place, by Purgatorie fier, as indeede he doth, although before you denied the same: how proue you our present controuersy, that mortall sinnes forgiuen, become veniall, and may be purged in Purgatorie▪ you say Cap. 70. Infanda crimina, &c. The hainou… offences, if they be forgiuen. Si conuenienter poenitentibus eadem crimina remitiuntur: He granteth they may be saued by Purgatorie fier, after this life. Good Lorde, what will you be ashamed to affirme? There is no such thing in that Chapter, no nor in that which goeth before, these wordes are not. But after he hath declared his doubt of them, that hauehave loued perishing goodes, whether they may be saued by purgatorie fire after this life: he saith, Non tamen tales de quibus dictū est quòd regnū Dei nō possidebunt, nisi conuenienter poenitentibus eadem crimina remit…ntur. Yet not such, of whom it is said, that they shal not possesse the kingdome of God, except vntounto them conueniently repenting the same crimes be forgiuen. Here although perhaps you may gather, that such persons are not excluded, yet can not you inferre, that for their great sinnes remitted, they should goe thither, but for their small sinnes, such as he spake of before. What the opinion is of him that made the 41. Homilie De Sanctis vnderunder ye name of Augustine, it forceth not greatly, seeing he doth not expounde th…t place 1. Cor 3. as Augustine himselfe doth in many places: and yet holdeth that not capitall, but small sinnes are purged with that fier.
8 Of Limbus Patrum.Bristowe.
I denied not but Augustine was of opinion that the Fulke.fathers before Christ were in hell, no not in that booke Contr. Feliciam. Arrian. But I wished his reason to be marked, wherefore he counted it blasphemous to say, that our sauiours soule was committed to prison in he…, because the soules of good men are immediatly called to Paradise, much more the soule of Christ, who commended the same into his fathers hand, and promised to be with the theefe the same daie in Paradise. To this reason Bristowe aunswereth nothing.
In the saying of I renaeus Lib. 3. Cap. 33. cited by Allen, I said it seemeth the name Adam to be taken for a common name of mankinde. But Bristowe wondereth at my blinde ignorance, as not knowing, that Tatianus against whom Irenaeus writeth, denied the saluation of Adam the first man.
As though it were necessary therefore, that Adam in this place must signifie that singular man: whereas it is euident, that rendring a cause why Saint Luke beginning the genealogie at Christe, endeth it in Adam, he disputeth first, of the mystery of our redemption generally, from Christ extending vntounto all ages: and saith, Necesse fuit &c. It was necessary, that our Lorde comming vntounto the lost sheepe, and making a recapitulation of so greate a disposition, and seeking his owne workemanship, to saue euen the same man which was made hi… image and similitude, that is Adam filling the times of his condemnation which was for disobedience &c. I see not what greate blindnesse it is here to take Adam for mankinde, as well as the lost sheepe: but admitt he meaneth our first parent, which I denied not: of what skill proceeded it in Allen, to interpret these wordes of Christs descending into hell, which is the matter there in question, when they are manifest of Christs incarnation, to saue all mankinde both the Fathers and vsus?
The other place of Irenaeus Lib. 5. almost in the end, I saide to ouerthrowe the Popish fantasie of Limbus, I might hauehave added also of Purgatory, where Irenaeus affirmeth, that Christ after his death, went into such a place, as all his disciples shall rest in, vntill the time of the generall resurrection, which was the place where the deade were before. Bristowe replyeth, he saith not, that the disciples shall goe into the same place yt Christ went, but into an inuisible place &c. whereto I answere, how is it manifest that they shall goe into such a place, but by the example of Christ, who went into the place where the deade were? And how can the text which he citeth, proue it? The disciple is not aboue the master, if eueryevery disciple should not goe into the same place, but as you holde, some to a much better, some to a worse, wheras he speaketh of one inuisible place, appointed by God for all the disciples of Christ.
And thus an end of al your caueling vponupon such places of the Doctours, as were cited by me. Which how rightly I hauehave discharged from your manifolde wrangling, that the indifferent teader might more throughly perceiue, I wish him to compare your cauills with those places of mine, which you quote, where he shall see that you hauehave taken greater paines to pick quarrells at me, then vsed diligence to defend your Author, whose bookes you hauehave vndertaken to mainteine: beside that of euerie ten reasons that I bring against him, you hauehave not touched one.