Rejoinder to Bristows Reply, Part 1 · Chapter 8 · Section 2
The second part.
Of Scriptures alledged concerning the question of the Church, …d first, what he alledgeth indefinitely, that the Church may Bristowe…re.
The firste text cited Ar. 86. EueryEvery man is a lyar, …herfore the whole Chuch militant consisting of men, Fulke.…hich are al lyars, may erre alltogether.
Against this, Bristowe asketh: Why I doe not saye …e Church triumphant: And demaundeth whether …at also doe not consist of men: I aunswere, the scrip…re Psalm. 116. speaketh of men liuing in this worlde, …d such as are meere men, lest he should cauill at our …uiour Christ, which is a man, and yet not contained in this generall rule. As for the members of the triumphant Church, whether they may properly be c…lled men, I will not dispute, but wee speake as the scripture speaketh of men on earth, and the Church o… …arth. And therefore although it be true, that som… men by the gifte of God are veraces, true: yet nere which may not erre. And therefore the absurdi… which I gather, Purg. 451. God onelyonly is not true, if … Pope cannot erre, is not auoided by saying the Apostles cannot erre. For vndoubtedly the Apostles did erre. That their preachings and writings were not erronious, it was because they were not theirs, but the enditing of the holy ghoste by them. But that the holy ghost speaketh not so by the Pope, it is manifest by this, that he hath spoken contrary to the spirite of God in the Scriptures, not onelyonly in matters of controuersie betweene him and vsus, but also in heresies condemned by both partes.
The 2. text is Ar. 88. where I saye: The true & onelyonly Church of God, hath no such priuilege graunted, but that she may be deceiued in some things: for her knowledge is vnperfect, & her prophecying is vnperfect. Bristowe replyeth, that S. Paul in that speach includeth him selfe: Our knowledge & our prophecying &c. is vnperfect, whether we speake or write. And sayth, that he troweth I will not say, that S. Paul might be deceiued in his writings & epistles: & no more may the Church be, I answere if S. Paul had proceeded further in prophecying, then according to such knowledge as he had by reuelation, & argumentation out of ye scriptures, he might hauehave erred. That he did not erre in his writings, it was not because it was impossible for him to erre, but because he did write nothing but that he had, either by reuelation of Iesus Christes spirit, or by argumentation out of the holy scriptures. And therfore, except ye church hauehave such warrant, as the Apostles & elders had by reuelation & the Scriptures Act. 15. she cannot truely say, It hath beene thought good to ye holy ghost & vsus.
The 3. text is Ar. 88. where I saye. It is true that S. …gustine saith, euen the whole Church is taught to say …ry day, Forgiue vsus our trespasses. But why so (saith …stow) because the whole Church doth erre in her de…minations eueryevery day? It were ridiculous so to say. …t Augustine speake for vsus both. Propter quasdam igno…tias & infirmitates membrorum suorum, for certaine ig…rances and infirmities of her members. The whole …urch for the ignorance of her members must say, for…ue vsus our debts: but the whole Church neede not say …, except she may be deceiued through the ignorance of …r members: therefore the whole church may be decei…d, Apostles and al: which did not erre in their writings …d determinations, because it was impossible for them … to doe, whatsoeuer they had written or determined, …t because in their writings and determinations, they …ere directed by such reuelation, as they had according … the holy scriptures.
The 4 text is, that the whole synagogue did erre, but …ot the Church of Christ, and that but in a fact, not in …octrine, nor the whole synagogue, but a peece onelyonly. …hich was the example of Dauid carying the Arke of …od vponupon a newe Chariot, which should hauehave ben cary…d vponupon mens shoulders. 1. Chron. 13. So that there be no …sse, then three walles saith Bristow betweene ye Church …nd your shotte. But by the grace of God, I will shewe …hat they are al but paper walles, that are erected against the trueth of …od, to binde it to the persons or places of men. First (saith Bristowe) it was the synagogue, and not the Church of Christ. Why Bristow, was not the Church of Christ, before Christ came into the flesh? at least remember that S. Paul writeth 1. Cor. 10. Al our fathers were baptised and communicated wt the bodie and bloude of Christ, or else finde vsus some other way of saluation, then in the bodie of Christ, whose member whosoeuer is not, is sure of damnation: or say that the Iewes being the members of the bodie of Christ, were not the Church of Christ.
The second wal, that this was a fact, and no doctrine, is soone blowne downe if wee doe consider, that the fact had neuer beene attempted, but that it was tho… lawfull and Godly, which was an error in doctrine. The thirde wal is, That the whole synagogue erred no… For he did not consult with the priest, saith Bristow, w… with his Tribunes, Centurions & nobles, but onelyonly w… the Lordes temporall, & hereupon he noteth my be… ly blindnesse: but much rather may I note his m… strous and more then beastly impudence, where the … according to his own vulgar translation addeth to th… whom he nameth, Et ait ad omnem coe…um Israel. and … the whole congregation of Israel. If it please you (quo… he) and if the motion be of God, let vsus sende vntounto … rest of our brethren in all the coastes of Israel, and … the priestes and Leuits which dwell in the suburbs of the ci…ies. yt they may be gathered vntounto vsus, &c. These (saith Bristowe) were as you woulde say the hedge priestes. Very well, ergo all the heade priestes were present. For otherwise howe coulde it be a perfect congregation of Israel, where there wanted the principall members of the priests, and Leuites, for their tribe and degree? And when he saith, let vsus sende to the rest of our brethren, and those which he sent to of that degree were none, but … it were hedge Priestes, as Bristowe affirmeth, who will doubt but the chiefe Priestes were present, except hee thinke they were not brethren vntounto the rest? But three monethes after, saith Bristowe, hauing founde out his error, he gathered not onelyonly all Israel …d Ierusalem, but also the sonnes of Aaron, Sadoc and Abiathar, &c. … though they were no part of Israel. But these (saith Bristowe) he gathered as two Bishoppes, and six other, as it were Archdeacons, and said vntounto them: You that are the heades of the Leuiticall families, prepare your selues with your brethren, and bring the Arke of our Lorde God of Israel, to the place which is dressed for it: least that as before, because you were not present, our Lord did sm…te vsus, so nowe also it happen for our vnlawfull doing. The words that Bristowe taketh holde off in his vulgar translation, are that these principall priestes and Leu…tes were not present, which as before it is proued …e, so are they not in ye Hebrew text LO ATT…M, No… …the verbe is vnderstood, which is in ye sentēce before: …t omitted, which now they were commaunded to do, …t is, to carie the Arke: So the sense is, because you did … carie it, and not, because you were absent. For beside …t hath beene saide before, of all the cheefe Priestes in …nerall, howe coulde it be saide, that Aminadab one of … sixe was absent, when the Arke was first brought …t of his house, who if he had not ben deceiued, should …ue tolde the king of his error before?
The 5. text is Ar. 86. where I say, the true and onelyonly …rch of Christ can neuer be voide of Gods spirite, and ye… she… …y erre from the trueth, and be deceiued in some thinge…: …uen …there is no true Christian man that is voide of Gods spirite, ye… …y eueryevery true Christian erre, &c. This my sophisme (saith …istowe) consisteth in speaking confusely of Gods spi…e, as though the gift of it were one, in ye whole church, …d in eueryevery particular true Christian man. But I say, …t, cleane contrarie to that he chargeth me, I distin…ish of the gift of the spirite of God concerning adop…n, that is in eueryevery one of the faithfull, by which hee … priuiledged from erring vntounto damnation: and the …rite of trueth which is not giuen in such measure ei…r to the whole Church, or to eueryevery member, but that …ey may erre in some thinges, though not finally in …atters necessarie vntounto saluation. As for the promise, …ohn 14. ver. 16. of the comforter euen the spirit of truth, to remaine with vsus for euer, and to leade vsus into al truth: If the later bee not restored to the Apostles, howe can Bristowe proue, that it must needes bee vnderstoode of …e whole Church onelyonly, and not of eueryevery member s…g our sauiour Christ, Iohn 17. prayeth not onelyonly for …is Apostles, but for all and eueryevery one that should be…eeue in him, through their preaching, that they might …e sanctified in the trueth, which is the worde of God. …nd euē in ye verie place cited, Iohn 14. ver. 15. promiseth …he comforter the spirite of trueth, to euerye one …hat beleeueth in him. And as he sent his spirite to leade …he Apostles into all trueth, so his Apostles fayled not to deliuer that trueth as well in writing as in preaching considering that the one is more subiect to forgetful… and corruption then the other. Wherefore the Church … called the piller of trueth. 1. Tim. 3. because it is buil… vponupon the foundation of the prophets and Apostles. Ep… 2. which had the whole trueth of the gospel reuealed … to them, not because the Church shoulde hauehave the spirite of trueth, to reueale any trueth vntounto her, which w… not reuealed to the Apostles, and by them as well i… their writings, as in their preachings. So that the sa… gift of the spirite being in the whole Church, that is i… euerie member, and distinct from the gift of the spirite in such measure as the Apostles had it in their preaching and writing, the argument by me set downe, is sound & no sophisme at all.
2 That the Church may be diuorced.
I neuer saide that ye true & Catholike church of Christ Bristowe.may be diuorced from him, but the visible & particular …ulk….Church of some place, & time, as the prophet Esay complaineth that the church of Ierusalem, by idolatrie & superstition, had separated her selfe from Christ, & was refused of him, Esa. 1. How is ye faithfull citie become an ha… lot? &c. And so may ye prophet say to ye church of Rome. Brist. asketh, whether ye prophet do say so to Rome? yea …erely. For ye idolatrie of Rome is nothing lesse, in this time then it was in his time of Ierusalē. But I am too too ignorant (Bristow saith) in the scriptures, if I know not herein the difference betweene the synagogue of the Iewes and the Church of Christ, to wit that the synagogue with her Ierusalē might & shuld be diuorced, but the Church of Christ with her Ierusalem (which is Rome saith Bristow) if you hauehave any sight in the Actes of the Apostles should neuer, nor neuer might be diuorced, &c. If mine ignorance be so great, why do you not with one text at the least help to teach me, yt the visible Church of Christ since his incarnation, consisting of the Gentiles, may not as wel be separated from him, as the Church of Christ before his incarnation, consisting of the Iewes? As for … diuorcement you imagine of all the whole on the …th, it neuer was ne shalbe. Againe, that Rome is the …usalem of the Church of Christ, where finde you in …c Acts of the Apostles, which hauehave so good sight in …em? I gesse this is your argument: S. Luke beginneth …s stor…e at Ierusalem, and endeth at Rome: ergo Rome the Ierusalem of the Church of Christ. But when you …n proue the consequens of this argument, I wil say as …ou say. In the meane time, I say there is small likely…od that Rome should be the Ierusalem of the Church …f Christ, seeing Peter being at Rome, is not once mēti…ed in all the Actes of the Apostles, nor in any other …ooke of holy scripture. But if you had as great sight … the Epistle to the Galathians, as you imagine your …lfe to hauehave in the Actes of the Apostles, there might …ou learne Cap. 4. that the Ierusalem of the Church of …hrist, is not Rome on earth, but Ierusalem which is a…o…e, which is the mother of vsus all. As for the reiecting …f the Iewes, and calling of the Gentiles euen vntill the …lnesse and the restoring of ye Iewes, of which you pro…hecy without the booke, yt they shalbe al Christened in …e end of the world, are matters impertinēt, to this que…tion of the visible Churches diuorcement.
3 That euen the Church of Christ shoulde prepare the way Bristowe.…o Antichrist.
This, saith Bristow, is a straunge imagination of him Fulk….and his fellowes, It is the totall summe of all their new diuinitie, yet no warrant at all they hauehave for it out of the scripture.
But I pray you Bristowe, who euer saide, that the Church of Christe prepared the way to Antichrist? I said Ar. 35. Manie abuses entred into ye Church of Christ immediately after ye Apostles time: which ye diuel planted as a preparatiue for antichrist. Do I not here plainely say ye diuell planted them as a preparatiue? Againe Ar. 38. I saide, The scripture telleth vsus that the mysterie of iniquitie preparing for the generall defection, and reuelation of Antichrist wrought euen in S. Paules tim… 2. Thessa. 2. First he quarreleth, that, general, is my wor… and not saint Paules: I confesse, but it is S. Paules m… ning, which speaketh not of a small or particular, but … that great and generall defection, which in other pa… of scripture is foreshewed to bee from Christ vntounto Antichrist. Apoc. 13. & 17. and yet not so generall, but th… Christ shall hauehave his Church still vponupon earth. Secondl… he demaundeth whether the scripture tell me, that it wr…ug… in the Church of Christ: and aunswereth himselfe, no word… so. … wrought in the persecuters &c. of the Church of Christ. And what scripture telleth you so? Is open persecution a myste…i… of iniquitie? You say better in the seducers, and where began the seducers, but in the visible Church, although they be no members of the true and Catholike Church… That our heresie is the last, or next the last before the reuelation, before you goe about to shewe, as you promise, you must proue it to bee an heresie, otherwise then the religion of Christ, was or the Infidels, Iewes, & Gentile…, called an heresie.
That the Church of Christ is alwayes a con…emp…ible companie.Bristowe.
I neuer saide so, but after diuerse authorities and re… sons …lke.brought to shewe, howe the worlde accounteth of the Church: I conclude Ar. 81. That as the Church in th… sight of God and his sancts, is most glorious and honorable, so in the sight of the worlde it hath alwayes beene most base and contemptible. To the scriptures I alledge 1. Cor. …. Gal. 6. Ro. 1. that the crosse, and Christ crucified thereon, which are all the glorie of the Church, are condemned of the worlde, Bristowe saith, that may be, and yet the Church not be in their sight a contemptible companie, no more then the olde Romanes and Turkes are to vsus, though we contemne their religion. I aunswere, I speake of the contempt of the Church, & not of the persons of men, which often times are great Emperors and princes of the world.
To the place Matth. 10. You shal be hated of all men …r my names sake. Bristowe inferreth the company that … hated is not alwayes contemptible. I confesse, neither …id I bring that texte, but to shewe the perpetuall hatred …f the world against the Church. But Cyprian writeth, …hat Decius was more patient to heare that an Emperor …as set vp against him, then that an other priest should …e ordeined at Rome in the place of Fabianus. This saith …ristowe, was not contempt, but of feare. Although I …eny not, but tyrants feare the church of God, more then …hey hauehave cause in respect of their earthly kingdome: …t it followeth not, but they do also contemne it, and …inke their power greater and their glorie superior vnt… it. And in the example of Decius, his indignation was …he greater, because the base and contemptible compa…y of the Church, as he esteemed them, durst choose an …ther Bishop, after he had slaine Fabianus, purposing to …estroy the Church vtterly.
That I alledge, 1. Cor. 1. Not many wise men, &c. He …yeth it was so in the beginning of the Church, but not …lwayes. And so I do blindly alledge the text againste …y selfe: Because afterwarde the text saith, the wise them…lues and the strong were confounded, that is to saye conuerted. … deede, if confusion and conuersion be all one, it is …mewhat that you saye: but howe will the text beare, …at (beside ye improprietie of the speach) that God hath …osen the foolishe things of the worlde, that he might …onuert the wisemen; and the weake, that he might con…ert the strong? Last of all God hath chosen the inno…e and contemptible things of the worlde, and those …hings which are not, that he might destroy those things …at are. As you say, to confound, is to conuert, so you here best saye, to destroy is to saue, or else you cannot …rooue the multitude of wise, noble, and honourable …ersons, that God hath chosen to be greater, then those …hat are reiected. As for the textes of Esay 60. & 10. …ited by you and mee, speake of the spirituall glorye of the Church, not deliuering her from the contemptof the worlde, where and among whome shee is a stranger.
That the church was, and also should become inuisibl….
Concerning the inuisiblenes of the church, Bristowe Bristowesayeth, I alledge so as no sober man would: so that …elike Fulke.he wil driue me to purge my self of drunkennesse, as the Apostles were fain… to do…. Act 2. But what saye … not sounding of sobr…tie? One while, that the vniuersall church of Christ, is not seene at all of men, because it is in heauen, Gal. 4. And here he asketh, if eueryevery member be not in heauē, as the Apostle fayth, Our conuersation is in heauen: Phil. 3. and Peter the Apostle w… seene of all men. I answere, although men be seene i… earth, yet their conuersation which is in heauen, is not seene; nor they them selues as they are in heauen with Christ which is our life, Col. 3. ver. 3. &c. So much mo… the vniuersall church, being a spirituall coniunction o… all the members vntounto Christ their head in heauen, is no… to be seene with bodily eyes vponupon earth.
But another while I say, Ar. 80. it sufficeth, that the church be knowne to Christ the head; as he sayeth, My sheepe heare my voice, and I know them; and to them y• be the members of the same body. Here Bristowe quarelleth wt me: if your text import, that it sufficeth to be knowne to the head, why doe you iumble in the members afterward? whether he be sober that vnderstande… not a copulatiue proposition, let wise men iudge. And yet the text proueth as wel the sheepe to knowe one another by hearing Christes voice, as Christe knowi…g them by his diuine election and prouidence. But B… stowe so great a craftes man of good conclusions, d… deth this consequence: Christ knoweth his sheepe, … the church (forsooth) may be inuisible: and so he may, for it is of his owne making, and not of mine. I had no more to proue, but that Christ should not be head of an vnknowen body, because he knoweth his owne body and the members knowe one another, although neither he nor they be knowen vntounto the worlde.
Yet another while I alledge, that though not alway…, …et at one certeine time, it should become inuisible, at …he comming of Antichrist, or rather when Antichrist …ath preuailed, I speake of the church in this world, & of the inuisiblenes vntounto the wicked world, what scrip…ures hauehave you for that? sayth Bristowe, Ar. 27. & 77. It …as propheci…d, that the church should flye into the Wildernesse. The defection which saint Paul speaketh of, concerning the churches inuisiblenesse, I hauehave pro…ed, howe substantiall the argument is before, Cap. 7. Par. 4. But nowe Bristowe opposeth scriptures to proue, …hat the church in ye time of Antichrist should be both …isible and vniuersall; For there shalbe preaching all the time of persecution by the true witnesses, Apoc. 11. euen 1260. dayes, or 42. monethes, which commeth to three yeares and an halfe. But after they be slaine and …lye vnburied 3. dayes and an halfe; which is also the time of Antichristes tyranny, and the greatest ruffe of …is crueltie, who shall preache then openly against Antichrist? for of such preaching we speake. But lest you should imagine these dayes to be common dayes of 24. houres long, as you seeme to doe of the 1260. dayes &c. you may see, that the inhabitants of the earth, could not hauehave time to publish their death and send giftes, &c. in so short a season as three dayes and an halfe of naturall dayes account. But you say the preaching shall be as generall as the persecution. That cannot be of so smal 2 number of witnesses. For that you quote Apoc. 14. pertaineth to the time of Antichristes consumption towarde the end, and his final destruction, for immediatly followeth the Angell, shewing the fall of Babylon.
Last of all, you obiect Apoc. 20. that the persecutors being in number as the sande of the Sea, shall ouer the wide worlde compasse the campe of the faithfull, & the citie of God: therfore the church shal be at the same time vniuersal, & super latitudinem terrae. I doubt not but the church shalbe vniuersall in her greatest straits, & dispersed ouer all the earth, when shee is fled into the wildernes, which signifieth her desolate condition, & not her place wout the world but neither of both is proued by ye text before alledged. For it followeth not, although th… enimies with their multitude shall come vp, and as it were couer the face of the earth, and so compasse the campe of the faithfull, and the beloued citie: that therfore the campe of the faithfull and the beloued citie is as large and as many in number, as their enimies: when experience proueth the contrary, at this daye, if all that be baptized were true Christians, and the Church of Christ, yet are they nothing in multitude, in comparison of the Turkes and Infidels: wherfore for any thing that is here shewed, the Church should be inuisible to the worlde, when Antichrist should be in his greatest tyrannie.
Namely of their church and of ours: by conference of places Bristowe.that are about Antichrist. That neither Antichrist nor the apostasie agreeth to Bon…face the third.
Being demaunded, Ar. 35. what yeare the religion of Papistes came in and preuailed: I answere, that although Fu…ke.many abuses and corruptions entred into the Church of Christ, immediatly after the Apostles time, which the diuell planted, as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist: yet we may well saye, that the religion of Papistes came in and preuailed, that yeare in which the Pope first obtained his antichristian exaltation, which was 607. when Boniface the third, for a great summe of money, obteined of Phocas the murthering Emperour, that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted▪ the head of all the church: which diuelish heresie increased vntill the yeare of our Lorde 1414. when the councell of Constance decreede that …acrilege of the communion in one kinde.
Likewise, Ar. 16. After I had shewed the persecution of the true Church vntill Constantine, and soone after by the Arrians, then the ouerthrowe of the Empire by the barbarous, hereticall & idolatrous nations: I conclude, But when Mahomet in the East, and Antichrist the Pope in the West, seduced the world with most detestable heresi…, then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn, Apo…. 12. The woman clothed with the Sunne, which is the Church, was so persecuted by the dragon, that shee fled into the Wildernesse, there t… remaine a long season.
These sayings of mine, Bristowe rehearseth, cut off in the wast, as though I referred the dragons persecution, only to the Pope: which I say plainly began before, but was most perfect concerning the apostasie, in the raigne of the popish Antichrist. Againe, he sayeth, I doe apply this prophesie onelyonly, because of the Popes primacy… which is false, but because of his false doctrine and heresie also. For that he sayeth the Popes primacie is a trueth of the Gospell, and practised before Bonifacius, …he referreth vsus for proofe to Saunders tray terous booke of Monarchie, and I for aunswere, will send the reader …o my ouerthrowe of his Romish Rocke. The suppo…ed contradictions I referre alwayes to the proper place, Cap. 11.
But, O sir, where is the Scripture that you promised …o bring so cleare? &c. sayth Bristowe. Sir my promise was, for articles of doctrine in controuersie between vsus, …nd not for the fulfilling of eueryevery prophesie, which the …ffect must better expound oftentimes, then the words.
But furthermore (sayth Bristow) you make shewe of a …ext which is against you, and vse most detestable fal…ification, saying the Church should remaine in the wildernesse a long season, but the text is cleane contra…y, a very short season. Say you so, Bristowe? where hauehave you these wordes in the text, a very short season? But you hauehave 1260. dayes, and a time, two times, and …alfe a time. And can you tell vsus the length of these …imes or of the dayes either? In the weekes of Daniell, …nto whome you referre the exposition of the two times (for you hauehave not two times, but times indefinitely in the reuelation) the propheticall dayes are as long as common yeres. As for the time, two times, and halfe a …ime, who is able to define the length of them?
But by Scripture you will proue a very short season, and first you iumble together, two diuerse prophecies, of Apoc. 12. & 20. of the loosing of Satan for a short season. Why man? short and long be Relatiues. The time of Satans loosing is short, in comparison, either of the long time that he was bound, or of the long and eternall time in which he shall remaine in perpetuall bondage. For though Antichrist raigned in open reuelation, and not in mysterie of iniquitie onelyonly, by the space of 807. yeares, more or lesse, and yet be not vtterly consumed, but yet in his consumption: Neuerthelesse, for a whole 1000. yeares after Christ, the gospell of saluation continued in the church, though much defiled with superstition, yet sounde in the onelyonly foundation, Christe, openly testified by sundry publike teachers, vntill Syluester the seconde, Anno Domini 1000. by the diuell him selfe (as euen the Popish stories confesse) was put in possession of the See of Rome, & then was the church driuen into greater straightes then euer before; the doctrine of saluation being turned into idolatry and blasphemie.
But it is monstrous, that Bristow expoundeth the consummation of the 1000. yeares, by the gospell, speaking of the consummation of the worlde, Matt. 24. Marke 13. and confoundeth those things that are spoken of the destruction of the temple and Ierusalem, with the ende of the worlde. And where he citeth Matth. 42. sta…i… post, streight after the persecution of those short dayes, considering that from the destruction of Ierusalem vntounto the ende of the worlde, so many hundreth yeares are passed, he might learne at the lest, not to measure the length and shortnesse of times, by mens reckonings, but to remember, that with the Lorde a thousand yeres are as a day, and a day as a thousand yeares, 2. Pet. 3.
His other patching of Centones, like Valentinians, in steede of conserence of scripture, because they consist of his onelyonly assertion, without reason or authoritie, I neede not to confute. As that the dayly sacrifice, which Daniel prophecieth, should be taken awaye by the death of Christe, Daniel the 9. &. 12. he expoundeth it of the sacrifice of the Masse; By the which …aint Paul prophecied, that wee shoulde announce our …ordes death: as though Saint Paul spake that of a sa…rifice, and not expresse of eating that bread and drin…ing that cuppe of the Lorde.
Like wise, speaking of the abomination of desolati…n, he sayeth: Daniel agreeth with the gospell & the …pocalips, where he sayeth: Daniel 12. From the time …hen the dayly sacrifice shalbe taken away, and the ab…omination set vp for desolation, dayes 1290. Blessed is …e that expecteth and cometh to dayes 1335. What agreement is betwene 1260. dayes and these two num…ers? beside that Daniel 9. the Angel sheweth, that …he abhominatian of desolation in the temple, and the …esolation shall continue euen to the consummation …nd end.
Last of all, he will prooue, that the season is short, …ut of the Apostle, 2. Thess. 2. where he chargeth the Thessalonians, that they be not troubled as though the …ay of the Lorde were then instant, for Antichrist must …irst be reuealed. And then in deede (sayeth Bristowe) …he day of our Lorde is instant. And howe knowe you …hat? For our Lorde Iesus Christe (sayeth he) will kill …im with the breath of his mouth. What immediatly, Bristowe? so soone as he is shewed openly, will you …llowe him no time, to exercise the power of Satan in all lying signes and wonders? shall he be killed before he hauehave practised all deceite of vnrighteousnes in them that perish, to whome God shall …ende the efficacie of errour, that they may beleeue lying, that all they which hauehave not beleeued the trueth, but had pleasure in vnrighteo…snesse may be condemned? This will aske a longer time, then three yeares and an halfe of the Sunnes reuolution, or 42. months of the Moones circuite. It is not one mannes person or age that can suffice to deceiue all them that hauehave not beleeued the trueth.
His last conceite, in distinguishing the apostasie from the reuealing of Antichrist, by the token giuen of ye abolishing of the Romane Empire, which should come to passe before the reuealing, but not before the apostasie, because it is his owne drousie imagination, without grounde, I will not vouchsafe to confute, especially, seeing the Apostle ver. 3. ioyneth the Apostasie and the reuelation immediately together.
Whether Antichrist or the Apostasie agree to the Protestantes.Bristowe.
In this title is nothing but surmises, wherof he him Fulke.selfe is vncerteine: but for one place in the Apocalipse he would saye, vnderunder the churches leaue, that our heresie is the apostasie, the place is in the first V… of the Locustes, and their king Abaddon Apoc. 9. where somethings agree, and other things agree not, &c. But let him looke on the commentarie of Bullinger, Alphonsus, Chytraeus, Iohn Bale, and other, and he shal finde a neerer agreement of that kingdome to the Pope and his lecherous Locusts, the Monkes and Fryers, then he can imagine vntounto vsus. I passe ouer the abomination of desolation, which one while he maketh Luthers and Caluins inuentions; another while, the kings armes set in place of the moste sweete and glorious roode; yea, the image of a vile grassehopper in a church that is well knowen, which is an vmbraticall desolation, as the images of Iupiter and the Emperors were in the temple &c. matters to be laughed at, although perhaps he lye, because he dare not name the church, or else is afrayd it should be refourmed, if any vaine painter hath set vp such images. And yet what more common in Poperye, then not onelyonly to paint, but also to carue the images of kings, and noble mens armes, euen vponupon the roodeloft of the Churches, where they were patrones? At last hee challengeth mee to ioyne with him vppon his last demaund, which is apostasie, vntounto which I hauehave aunswered long since. Finally, he will discharge the Pope from being antichrist, by the commentarie which the scripture it selfe makes. The seuen heads are seuen hilles, vppon which the woman sitteth: And they are seuen kings: whereof fiue are falne, which are the persecu…ing kings, before the time when this was spoken. What then? One is presently, who therefore is ment of the Romane Emperors, and all other kings persecuting with them. The other is not yet come, and when he commeth, he must remaine a short season, who euidently is Antichrist in proper person.
This exposition hitherto may agree with the Pope: Nay (sayth Bristowe) for he must remaine not a long season, as the fiue, and as the one, but a short season, only three yeares and an halfe. But where hauehave you the length of his continuance compared with the fiue and one? All the time of the Churches persecution is but short, in comparison of the infinite comfort, that she shal hauehave euerlastingly, though it be long in the iudgement of fleshe and blood, measuring the time by the breuitie of mans life, and the seasons of this worlde, as Bristowe doeth the three yeares and an halfe. But this is worthie to be noted, that he expoundeth the sixt king for the whole state of Romane Emperors, and other persecuting kings, as he doeth the fiue kings that were past, and yet against all reason and analogie, wold hauehave the seuenth (which is antichrist) to be one singular man, so to auoide, that the whole rabble of Popes cannot be antichrist. Nowe followeth the exposition of the tenne hornes, which are tenne kings, which hauehave not yet taken kingdome, but they shall take power as kinges euen in one houre with the beast, that is, together with Antichrist (sayth he) to serue him as his feede knights. I maruell whether he will not expound the houre in this place for the 24. part of a naturall daye. For otherwise wee see by histories, that the aduauncement of the Pope, was the decay of the Empire in the West, and with him arose a multitude of kings in eueryevery prouince, which before were subiect to one Emperour.
And so you see euidently (sayth Bristowe) by these seuen hilles, thus expounded, that the woman which sitteth vponupon them, is not so little a one, as you do make her, but that shee is Mundus impiorum: the whole worlde of wicked men. But where do we see this euident exposition of the seuen hilles? wee hauehave seene the exposition of the seuen heades, to bee seuen kings, and also seuen hills: but we see no exposition of the hills, who must needs be taken in their proper sense, because they are the exposition of anothe… figuratiue speach, namely seuen heades. But the woman (you say,) is no little one, which sitteth on the seuen hilles, but the worlde of wicked men. Let the holye ghost I pray you expounde the woman, as well as the heades of her beast. And the woman which thou sawest is that great citie which hath the kingdome ouer the kinges of the earth. This is a cleare exposition of the whore of Babylon, the woman; and as cleare a description of the citie of Rome, which in that time, had the kingdome ouer the kinges of the earth, and is the citie builded vppon seuen hilles, before expounded to be one of the significations of the seuen heades, a persecuter of the sainctes vnderunder the Emperors, and a poisone… and persecutor of the Church vnderunder the Popes. And therefore Mundus impiorum is a false exposition, which I will prooue by this reason. The whore of Babylon is a great citie, hauing dominion ouer ye kings of the earth: but the whole worlde of wicked men is not a great citie, hauing dominion ouer the kinges of the earth: therfore the whore of Babylon is not the whole worlde of wicked men. Againe, The whore of Babylon is a citie situated vponupon seuen hilles: The whole worlde of wicked men is not a citie situate vppon seuen hils: therefore the whore of Babylon is not the whole world of wicked men.